How Clare Swithenbank-Bowman is Transforming Waste Management (TrashTalk)

Lightly edited for readability.

Clare Swithenbank-Bowman: Lucas James (00:00.588) Everybody, thank you for tuning in for another episode of Green Decades. I'm on with Claire of Trashtalk.io and many other really cool ventures in the sustainability space. Thank you so much, Claire, for being on the show today. Clare` (00:18.882) Thank you so much for reaching out and allowing us to share what we're doing in the sustainability space. Lucas James (00:24.044) So yeah, you have a really cool background. And I just wanna start off by having you tell the audience where did this interest in sustainability begin? Clare` (00:36.524) Yeah. gosh, long story. Over a decade ago, I'm actually a a surfer, a rescue diver, passionate about the ocean. growing up in South Africa, realizing we've got so many underserved, very poor communities with no infrastructure. I did a lot of work with Rotary back then and going out into the townships and just seeing our rivers that were just overflowing with trash, burning on the side of the roads, people starving. I came up with the idea loc launching it at a local school called a Tembalambasha with the headmistress Doreen, our late Doreen that's passed since then. and came up with the idea of like, well, how can we give an equal value across all the packaging material so that us as humans, we weren't throwing it into the rivers because I knew it had a value, but obviously as we know, it all has different values, whether it's clean, whether it's PP, whether it's glass. aluminium or so forth. So every substrate has a different value. So I came up with the idea giving an equal value. I donated bags to the school. It literally blew up within the the first week we had over 400 waste collectors that were bringing in separated material. We educated them about all the different types. So from your LDPE, we've got seven different types of plastic. your chip packets, your plastic, you know, from plastic bags to your PP, which and your tin, which obviously had a higher value. but we wanted an equal value to get it all out of the environment. So nothing was burnt. And again, we have, you know, drug problems and so forth. So we didn't want any cash given out to our waste collectors. So we I created a token system where we give them a ticket per kg they brought in. Everything's weighed, documented. And they would be able to actually survive and exchange those tokens for sanitary goods, clean, dry, you know, either clothing that we got donated to these shops. and it was a way of sort of empowering these communities, but feeding and also educating them about not burning. so we'd link the MIRFs in those areas or the haulers that would come and collect on a given day. everything was tracked. Clare` (02:59.884) And you can imagine the manual process from that was pretty huge because every kg that was weighed to every waste collector to the ID, everything was done manually. and hence that's when I went on to create Litterhub, which was running for the past four years. So we could track then our 38 sites across the country that we now have. we I was explaining earlier, we have now our fifth round of funding from the President Stimulus Fund, which is very exciting. Five years over 38 million, as I said, in funding, where we now have over two and a half thousand employees that are actively collecting in the environment. And we are able to track, yeah, geographically across the country, every type of substrate. Lucas James (03:43.392) Wow. Clare` (03:50.726) where it's come from through to the MIRF or the hauler who's collecting then the one ton bags through to it being actually processed into new material. So therefore tracking that full CO two and methane landfill diversion rates. So that's where it came from. Lucas James (04:07.232) Wow, that's so cool. I you know, to be honest, when we were doing all the research, I I there was so much more detail that you just gave there, which was amazing to hear. I had no idea the scale that this was operating at. That's incredible. I did see the videos that were posted about the beach cleanups and the token system there. And it was really awesome to see people coming together and doing beach cleanups. I Clare` (04:28.534) Yes. Lucas James (04:35.466) I'm curious how you're thinking about that funding when you're putting it towards these efforts, is most of it essentially going towards the individuals to do the cleanup process, or is it other forms of work that it goes towards, or technology in the case of the software? How are you thinking about reallocating the way you're investing in the space to try to solve some of these critical challenges? Clare` (05:04.28) That's a good question, Lucas. So it's been 10 years of, as you can imagine, of like constant grant writing and so forth. So tapping in. So because I run the two foundations and trash for tokens in the USA, I realized that we needed. It was critical to have this data in one place so that a funder could come forward and go, right, I'd like to, for example, Coca-Cola, part of my ESG, or to show that they want to get back, say 20 tons of PET this month. So we could target a specific geographic location in South Africa to activate those that community or waste collectors that are onboarded where they could say, right, ten thousand dollars we're gonna put towards getting back so many tons of PET or LDPE or tin or glass or whatever it might be. So everything's tracked and in a central database for that funder to be able to actually see. So they can see live data and tracking. of what's been collected and taken out of the environment as well as what's going through to the MERF or hauler to the processor to be actually reprocessed into new material. So there's no greenwashing along this way either. So there's two different systems, how we're running it in South Africa at the moment from the community aspect through Trash Talk. So there's the stipend model where that's through the President Stimulus Fund. Lucas James (06:15.2) Yeah. Clare` (06:30.604) where our waste collectors get a stipend and they're mandated to collect a number, a certain number of bags per month. So be it 70 kgs, they work we work on weight and everything is tracked via our timekeeper per collector. So we can see what they're bringing in, whether it be the PET, L D PE, tin, or glass, everything's tracked on the app. and then we can see the geographic location as to where we might have more of a a a problem with say LDPE in the environment versus your glass. We've got a big problem with glass because obviously it's a very heavy commodity, so it's harder for our waste collectors to be transporting that substrate. So that's why we supply them then with tools, PPE, which the funders can also track via our app to show Mrs. and Lorville received one trolley, gloves, a mask. So we're really showing that full like impact for that waste collector. So that's the waste collector system that sits under the Trash Talk module. And then there's the token system where we fund token shops across the country, but it's very much based, we're very heavily reliant on funding that comes in from either local shops or businesses that want to support the community there and donate their CSR funding. And that's based on thirty eight Rand a bag because that has to include the PPE, the tools that we give to the waste collectors as well. And an equal value. So we want it all out of the environment, hence that equal value we give across every KG. Lucas James (08:09.707) Mm. Lucas James (08:13.858) And where is Trash Talk mostly operating right now? Clare` (08:18.698) So it is pretty much equal. South Africa and obviously now the USA. We launched officially a month ago at the San Diego Climate Week. So I don't know if you noticed we did we actually do all events as well. So we want to be that single source of like truth and platform that is the operational so we can see, you know, we're getting the reports, we're showing the the myth methodology from the bottom up. Lucas James (08:30.018) Mm. Clare` (08:48.396) So at the San Diego Climate Week, which was it was so powerful because it was at had multiple events across San Diego, you know, we our the staff and the volunteers were able to photograph the different waste streams, weigh it, load it onto the system, and then obviously then you've got the skip saying for example, the ECOs or whatever the waste the hauler was that would come, they would have to load the slip. Lucas James (09:14.39) Right. Clare` (09:16.75) as to what they collected at on that route. and then it's obviously works out the CO2 methane landfill diversion rates. And what's great as well from the event module that we actually offer is you could even go as far, we partnered with Zero Waste in Turkey. I don't know if you know the Global Zero Waste conference. So huge Lucas James (09:38.412) Think I do, yes. do. Clare` (09:42.562) presentation they put on like a six seven day event the the president of Turkey and again it's to show sort of you can actually track even individual people coming from all over the world and their CO2 impact per se from whether they were transported by a train, a plane and so forth. So from the event module there's a lot of different options that can be tracked. Lucas James (10:01.09) Hm. Clare` (10:12.518) and I think that's how it evolved, and I got so excited about it, and I was so thrilled when I met my COO, Sharice. she was the founder of Perfect Bar. She understands even the manufacturing process. We want to be able to offer the platform that can offer not only the MERFs, the processes, but linking everything through manufacturing. What are you receiving, what's going out? And hence that's why we have all these different modules for everyone that is creating waste in in this space that we live in called Earth. Lucas James (10:49.47) Yes, and unfortunately there's a lot of that. there's a lot of waste. And so it's really cool that you built this product and this business and that you've been doing this for so long. And I love that you've made such a big impact. I am curious when you developed this and built the technology for it, was there a gap in the market? Meaning, were there Clare` (10:54.264) Yeah. Lucas James (11:18.514) Not solutions being deployed for something like this? because it seems like a really obvious thing, right? Like pay people to go or or compensate them in some way to go clean up trash. It seems like a very obvious thing people should be doing, government should be, you know, doing this all over the place, right? So is it that there was no solution out there that was being actively used, or is yours just better, more streamlined? And if there is not a solution out there other than yours. Clare` (11:36.493) Yeah. Lucas James (11:48.234) Why? Why are other people not doing this? Why is this not in every single state in the country? Clare` (11:54.122) Exactly. I would love litter for tokens, which I rebranded trash for tokens. because the Americans were like when I would speak about litter for tokens, are you talking about cat litter? So that was quite interesting for me. Hence why I rebranded. so we've actually done a lot of grants. Yeah. We did a we've just done a grant as well for our I don't know if you're aware of our huge problem we have in Tijuana, with the with the sewage and the trash crisis going down our rivers. Lucas James (12:06.54) Ha ha. Right. My cats would be really interested in that though. I'll let them know. Lucas James (12:23.038) No, I actually was not aware of that. Clare` (12:24.12) So it's Prop 4 funding, it's, you know, the solutions are there. Other countries have come up with solutions that, you know, with underserved communities. and to me, coming up with this idea a decade ago, I think we were one of the first, you know, and we've been nominated for Earthshot Prize, which was incredible back two years ago. but it's it's really just constantly reaching out to like Alliance to Plastic Waste. Lucas James (12:47.138) Congrats. Clare` (12:53.91) all these other organizations, surfers, you know, to understand that we do have a solution. So hence Prop for funding which we've applied for to offer the solution, trash for tokens, that we can implement a system where there's equal value. Obviously it has to be funded, unfortunately. There has to be money put behind this, but we can recycle everything if it's collected and separated at source. You know, in California, we've got an issue where everything goes into the blue bin, so higher contamination rates. these poor Murphs get thousands of tons a day, and they're expected manual people that are having to go through and sort through, you know, you from your glass to your aluminum and so forth. So there's a lot of work to still be done, I feel, but having a software like this where we can assist Murphs, so cameras in the skips like RTSU. Lucas James (13:28.354) Mm-hmm. Clare` (13:51.65) Done the was doing a lot of work in the sector. again, our system tracks right through from you know the hauler through to the processor. So what is bailed? What is then sold on? You know, so there's no greenwashing, and it's a simple system for that individual hauler that is also maybe a processor. So they've got a single platform from collection routes haulers to kegis, right through to all their emission accounting, GHG protocols from, you know, their waste disclosures to their SLAs. So a simple system that has everything sitting under one platform. And that's ultimately why I realized that I think to answer your question, there was a gap. You know, you've got so many different MERFs and haulers are sitting with all these different systems from Exile that they're trying to pull into this reporting. Lucas James (14:32.192) Mm. Lucas James (14:38.017) Yeah. Clare` (14:49.516) And there isn't one central that I believed system. And that is why we were so thrilled to launch this with our CTO and our COO bringing all of these systems in one place. Lucas James (15:02.091) Yeah. That's incredible. And yeah, I just it's really fun doing this interview after interviewing Gregory at RTS because it's so cool hearing the wide systemic process of how recycling actually takes place. And you know, it's interesting. I don't know if it's the same in South Africa, but in the US, I grew up with the idea that recycling doesn't really work. there was a lot of myths. Around it that people said it doesn't work. I think when you're at the beach, you know, it seems really clear like you shouldn't have plastic at the beach. But then I think a lot of people when they go to their recycling bin in their house and they put something in there, they might be under the belief, it just doesn't even work. Why do it? I'm curious what you would say to that. having been in this industry now for so long, it does it work? Clare` (15:34.774) Mm. Lucas James (16:02.22) fully how effective is it in the United States? I mean, obviously any impact is probably good, but to what degree is it actually effective, from your understanding? Clare` (16:12.834) Yeah, I mean the US is a is a massive country, right? And every state has so many different processes that they're they're doing, you know? and it's I I mean it's quite mind blowing to see how South Africa, in my eyes, is actually a little bit ahead of the game from we're more like a first world country on our recycling. Even Mexico is doing quite a good job because they're separating at source. So I feel very bad for the Mersey in California. Lucas James (16:17.58) Yeah. Clare` (16:41.474) 'cause their job is really cut, you know, cut out for them. If you think, for example, you know, every bit of waste, packaging waste, we don't want to see any of it on our beaches, whether it's plastic or glass or tin, right? It doesn't need to go into the rivers. It can all be repurposed and recycled. It's just about the separation. So it's assisting, I think, the MIRFs at the end of the day. If we can segregate in the education per household, for example, at source a little bit better, like the biggest thing we have is glass is going in with aluminium and your all your plastics. If any of those glass shards go in and contaminate the plastic, we're we've got an issue on our hands, or the MIRF does. So it can contaminate that. So The education is key, which California is doing really great about. And I think as an individual, like knowing that if we separate and we are like putting our food waste in a compostable bin, knowing what can go into landfill, you know, separate haulers for like your algae, like your plastics, your flimsy plastics, because those can clot the machines. So I think those are very important educational lessons that just need to be given to a person that is just wanting to do their good thing every day. You know, we're all trying to do our bit. And it takes one because there's if all of us just d pick up, say, three pieces of litter a day and put it into the right bins, that's twenty four million pieces a day. So it's quite an impact, right? If we look at that that way. Lucas James (18:19.222) Mm-hmm. Lucas James (18:24.162) It is a huge impact, yes. Clare` (18:27.998) So and just using less, you know, reusing the three R's, using less. I always tell my kids I've got three children and I think they just don't want to hear me ever talk about trash again, you could imagine. But it's they've been brought up with this. So there's, you know, it's at home. I'm constantly on them, you know, knowing that you a scraping of like in a jar of peanut butter, if you just Lucas James (18:42.55) Ha ha Yeah. Clare` (18:54.444) Can't scrape anymore, you're good to go. Put it in there. You don't need to rinse everything. So it's those little lessons that are imperative that need to come through, through government, through education constantly. but I think it does, we are making a difference. and people are being aware now that data is critical as well. And I think the the stats across the USA, it's like six percent. Lucas James (18:57.226) Right. Clare` (19:21.664) Of everything that goes is into the the MERFs is being recycled, it might have gone up per state, like California. I think we're on about forty-two percent. It's still not enough, but where is that data all sitting? So I, as a a person that lives in California, would love to see all those haulers integrated into a system where they're mandated because they are through the cities and Lucas James (19:46.85) Right. Clare` (19:47.636) showing what is diverted to landfill and then the landfill has to also put in what are they receiving so we can actually then really work out what the recyclers are saying what's diverted and reprocessed into new material, what is then showing in the landfill, you know, how is that comparing and giving that single dashboard, which is what Trash Talk will do for the cities of San Diego and so forth and the counties. Lucas James (20:14.534) And I think with the let's talk a little bit more about trash talk on the technological angle because we have a lot of people who are in the tech space who listen to this podcast and they want to use technology in a positive way to help society through climate technology. And tell me a little bit more about how the platform actually works. Clare` (20:20.59) Mm-hmm. Lucas James (20:40.692) how you went about building it, what are the core features that it tackles for people? Just a little bit more about how it actually works on that side. Clare` (20:50.7) Yeah, I mean it's only as good as what you are going to put into the platform. So we're from the bottom up. So this is where it comes in per module or per company. For example, events like I was saying with San Diego Climate Week, you have the options to put down your separated or the different substrates that you'd want to actually be collecting or that you are collecting, whether it's landfill. your PET, your LDPE, construction C and D waste, e-waste, everything. So every module has its own sort of product option per se. And then, you know, you can run, for example, under events, your weekly, if you have multiple events per month, you know, everything is obviously logged in there from the geographic location, syncing then your your MERFs and your haulers. Lucas James (21:23.681) Right. Clare` (21:47.194) and again photographic evidence. So going with if we need to do from a hauler, having all your roots mapped and having your your actual cameras in each of the different skips, so we can see contamination rates as well. So very similar to RTS. So the different modules that we created and the products and solutions are across the whole sector. So whether you're a processor, a hauler, we just had a meeting with a client now. They are all three, they actually receive kgs of waste that come in that they've got to pay people cash for. So that would be the collector module because then they're paying them cash. It could be a business that they are collecting or from that they need to now pay, like in the r the realms of thirty thousand dollars a month. So that could be paid into their banking account. So it's synchronizing all of those systems to make it a single platform so it's easier. So whether you're a MRF, a processor, an event, a nonprofit just doing beach cleanups and you want to start tracking and showing that separation. We recently ran the WSL Bolito Pro in South Africa where we had waste collectors because of my nonprofit, we could verify and show every day what kind of packaging waste we were collecting from Corona, who was one of our sponsors of the WSL Bolito Pro, but showing then every day what we were diverting from the ocean and landfill and what was being repurposed and recycled into new material. Because that's ultimately we want to see at the end is what is the CO2 and the methane landfill diversion rates, what's that impact? And each event then you could see Did we have more LDPE? Do we have styrofoam? PLA, which is a new substrate, which, you know, unfortunately, as we know, is is contaminating a lot of our plastic recycling PLA because the consumer, we don't know what to do with it. Which bin do we need to put it in? Is it the organics bin or is it going to be in the in the recycling bin? So it's that education, which is our Paul Murphs and haulers are having to sort through daily. Lucas James (24:06.402) No. Clare` (24:13.034) So I don't know if that answered your question there. so I, you know, it's it's it's a powerful and evolving system, I think that we've built. We're very, very excited about it because we're connecting every single we feel from businesses, events, stadiums to your cruise line ships. We want everyone to be on here, you know, your your flights when they're coming, when they're leaving, coming back. Lucas James (24:13.804) So yeah. Lucas James (24:23.873) Right. Lucas James (24:41.249) Yeah. Clare` (24:43.226) manufacturing, as I mentioned earlier, you know, from your total your total amount that you're actually pushing out, you know, EPR is now rolling out here in California and across the country. I'm not sure if you're aware of EPR. So our platforms able to track EPR, which is massive. So EPR is your extender producer responsibility. So any manufacturer that Lucas James (24:55.713) Right. Lucas James (24:59.616) No. Lucas James (25:03.68) What is EPR for the audience? Clare` (25:11.064) produces anything that puts it out into the environment, pays a fee into a PRO to be able to get that packaging back ultimately. So there's a cost associated with that. And that is where in South Africa we've been running EPR for the last four, three, three and a half years, working with PROs. So you've got a PRO for e waste, a PRO for glass, a PRO that just focuses on PET getting the volumes back. And then they pay a fee per kg to say a collector being 15 cents a kg, which is crazy when you think what 15 cents is is not even a a cent in America. So it doesn't really affect the price. But if you look at some of our waste collectors that would bring in, say 80 kgs you know, over a month, that is worth a loaf of bread. Lucas James (25:53.44) Yeah. No. Right. Lucas James (26:06.625) Right. Clare` (26:08.638) or some SAMP and Millie Meal, it's it's massive to them. So our software that we've built enables the PRO to be able to see that that's actually gone through to that KG for that collection. Similar to CRV that we have in California, you know, we want to be able to offer and we've got the platform that we know can track the CRV that's then paid or received from that that caller. Lucas James (26:09.472) Yes. Lucas James (26:22.241) Yeah. Lucas James (26:38.892) Right. And I know we're reaching the end of the interview here, but just want to touch on one area which we haven't really gotten into too much, which is more around the industry itself for sustainability and AI. it's obviously on everyone's minds. and you know, I think AI can be a very useful tool if used correctly. But I'm just curious your thoughts on How companies in sustainability should think about using AI? to what degree they should use it? is there instances where it could potentially cause more damage than good? like how do you how do you think about it in that sense? Clare` (27:24.984) Yeah. I mean our CTO is incredible and we've been using AI quite a bit, right? I think it's definitely not going away and it's there to help us. Obviously, the different variations of platforms. funny, my child actually told me about this about a year ago and said, Mom, stop using AI. You're an environmentalist, you're destroying our planet, all the water. And I'm like, Really? So she actually enlightened me about that. But you know, I Lucas James (27:30.529) Right. Lucas James (27:43.296) Yeah. Yeah. Lucas James (27:49.706) Yeah. Clare` (27:51.313) it's got its place and I think we we need to utilize it because again, depending on the type of platform and how much the usage is, I think it's got its place and it's only gonna go from strength to strength. you know, our platform has all the data software protection in it and it's involved and it's helping us create something that we know the world needs to be able to verify and report and track this data. Lucas James (28:17.154) Yeah. Clare` (28:20.474) I think from one thing we didn't actually touch on with what I would also maybe love if I was president one day. I think you asked RTS I love that question. yes, I know. you know I don't know many people don't know what noodles are. to me. Now you do, yes. So noodles are the pre-production pellets of all Lucas James (28:30.442) Yeah, I did. I was gonna ask that at the end. Yeah, if you were president, what would you do for sustainability? Lucas James (28:43.139) I actually do now because of your video. I watched it, yeah. Clare` (28:50.19) Plastic, okay, across the chain. So I discovered this coming out of the sea in South Africa. We had a nurdle spill from America from ExxonMobil and Vin Nong, who delivered probably to a you know, Coca-Cola factory to manufacture the bottles. Hundred and eighty-five metric tons of these tiny little nurdles ca fell off a a ship. So what I uncovered over seven years ago, and I've presented to the IMO, the INDG. Lucas James (29:09.09) Yeah. Clare` (29:20.104) sorry, the IMO International Maritime Organization, is that noodles have been transported since plastic was invented in the nineteen forties as non-hazardous material. Because to me, I've always been about prevention. Everything can be prevented. The problem is that we have as a world globally is that everyone's interested in doing a beach cleanup and putting all the money into that. But what about putting in preventative measures or the campaigns in the first place? Because ocean plastic right now is so expensive, it's through the roof. What about the plastic that hasn't even reached, you know, that we can prevent from actually getting into the ocean and the rivers in the first place? So if we get the amendment of the IMDG code for noodles shipped global globally around the world, changed to hazardous material like oil, they will be shipped below deck in sealed containers like oil. Lucas James (29:50.486) Right. Lucas James (29:58.848) Mm. Yeah. Clare` (30:19.854) Because oil is expensive to ship around. We're not gonna have these catastrophic nurdle spills like Sri Lanka, eleven thousand metric tons. They're not gonna be flying off our trains like they are every day here in California. So we've just been working with the railway here with lawyers, because we uncovered that three years ago through my foundation. They're leaking in every single transport system and have been since the nineteen forties. And these are microplastics. Lucas James (30:45.162) Mm. Clare` (30:49.292) So if we get that IMDG code changed for nurdles, Lucas, that pushes the price up, right, of virgin plastic. So that's what the IMO said to me, Claire, be careful here, because what you've uncovered, if we get the price of virgin plastic pushed up, which we will through changing the IMDG code of transportation of these nurdles to hazardous material, the price of virgin plastic would then become more in line with then recycled plastic. Lucas James (30:55.189) Yeah. Clare` (31:19.084) So my goal or my vision as the president of the United States, wouldn't that be incredible if we put this into place? Because then we would be utilizing the plastic that's already in our countries, repurposing, recycling, because it's not going to cost as much. It'll cost 800 tons currently to ship one sorry, 800 to ship one ton of noodles at the moment. Lucas James (31:25.878) Yeah. Lucas James (31:37.442) Mm-hmm. Clare` (31:45.782) And that could go up to say two thousand if we had to put the hazardous code in, because it's got to be in those sealed containers. So we're gonna think as a country, let us rather repurpose and put the money into repurposing all the plastic that's already in our landfills. Well that's Lucas James (31:52.673) Yeah. Lucas James (32:01.718) That's genius. And I had never heard anyone offer that as an idea. And I think that's really awesome. And we should do that. Yeah. Yeah. Clare` (32:06.678) Yeah. That's the system. The system has to change. which is then going to change the price of virgin plastic. And it's going to change the industry. So we will then put money rather into recycling all the plastics because we can do it. We can send someone to the we can do it. Lucas James (32:15.86) Yes. Lucas James (32:22.976) Yeah. I'm reading a good book. I'm reading a good book right now called eco-capitalism and just came out last year and they talk they don't talk about this specifically, but they are basically trying to share a new way of building the economy with the ecological impacts in mind. So I I love that idea. Clare` (32:46.432) Interesting. Lucas James (32:48.658) and I just asked one final question because it's just on my mind. And it's I've just I'm a technologist, so I I definitely am like very curious. so you answered, you know, on like the economic side, what would change, but for your own company, what what is kind of like the the the the dream technology solution or like solution that if you could build it, you'd like to see happen? Because it sounds like you're building all this cool tech and Clare` (32:55.532) Yes. Lucas James (33:18.126) the platform's really awesome and it's gonna grow. is is the idea to just keep expanding that or is there other areas that you'd want to get into with this? And if so, are they like, you know, other types of recycling processes or what what's your what's your idea with it? Clare` (33:40.472) Yeah, I I mean good question. I think, you know, because we're at the embassy of rolling it out, but because we offer all these other modules, you know, we are obviously able to adapt. So like we had our client today that was a processor, a MERF, you know, also the community side, and we're like we're able to manipulate and add in where we need to for that client of ours. But the goal is we want every city, every MIRF, processor, landfill connected. Lucas James (33:46.38) Yeah. Right. Clare` (34:10.754) you know, to really show that global or that country impact ultimately, you know, so that there's no more of this greenwashing, we do this and that, but to ultimately give a simple platform that's easy to use for the event sites, for the, you know, a a nonprofit or for a manufacturer, for example, as well. you know, we're we're working with a company that's manufacturing microchips. Lucas James (34:16.95) Yeah. Lucas James (34:31.959) Yeah. Clare` (34:40.634) And they use a lot of recycled parts to their machines, you know, not to say too much, but we can our app can actually consolidate and show per machine what's been utilized in that machine and then show the CO2 landfall diversion rates and how environmentally friendly. So, you know, from a manufacturing point, it's just endless what our app can actually offer. Lucas James (34:43.81) Right. Yeah. Lucas James (34:55.522) Mm. Clare` (35:07.594) and giving that single platform an easy to use, you know, system. Lucas James (35:13.482) Yeah. Well, that's a great note to end on. Thank you so much for being on the show, Claire. I've been truly honored to have you on here. I've learned quite a lot, and I'm sure that the audience has as well. And again, thanks for having this be your first podcast interview. That's awesome. definitely. Yeah. You gotta start your own. Do you have your own podcast? You gotta start your podcast. I feel like Clare` (35:19.182) Thank you, Nicole. Clare` (35:29.486) Thank you. I can talk trash all day. No. No, you're right, Lucas. Lucas James (35:40.022) People should definitely hear you talk about this more. I think there needs to be more hope in the recycling industry because of the myths around it that it doesn't work and it does work. And hearing you talk about it, hearing Greg talk about it, hearing all these other people talk about it, it's it's provide a lot of clarity to people again. And so I appreciate you. Thank you. And yeah. Clare` (35:52.961) It's. Clare` (36:04.174) And thank you for bringing us all together because we're all learning in this, you know, as it evolves. So we're very grateful for you. Lucas James (36:10.242) Of course, of course. Well, I loved what I do and I'm sure the audience got a kick out of it. So thank you so much. and everybody who's listening, this has been another episode of Green Decades. definitely feel free to share, comment, and engage. If you have any questions for Claire, I'm sure she'll be watching. So feel free if you have any questions for her, leave a comment below and maybe she can get around and answer to it. So thank you. Clare` (36:34.872) Thank you so much. Bye.